Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/20/1993 08:00 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
March 20, 1993
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Al Vezey, Chairman
Representative Pete Kott, Vice Chairman
Representative Harley Olberg
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Fran Ulmer
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Bettye Davis
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Terry Martin
Representative Jim Nordlund
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HCR 16 Relating to establishing the coal policy of the
state.
MOVED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS RECOMMENDATION
*HB 46 "An Act relating to frequent traveler credit for
state-paid travel."
HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
*HB 148 "An Act exempting the University of Alaska from
the administrative adjudication provisions of the
Administrative Procedure Act; and providing for an
effective date."
HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
*HCR 8 Proposing amendments to the Uniform Rules of the
Alaska State Legislature relating to notice of
committee meetings and action by committees; and
providing for an effective date.
HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
(* first public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Jeannette James
State Capitol, Room 510
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-3743
Position Statement: Delivered Sponsor Statement, HCR 16
Representative Terry Martin
State Capitol, Room 411
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-3783
Position Statement: Prime Sponsor, HB 46
Bruce Ludwig, Business Manager
APEA/AFT
211 4th Street
Juneau, Alaska 88801
586-2334
Position Statement: Opposed HB 46 and HB 148
Lois Foster
738 Forest Park Drive
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
225-2829
Position Statement: Opposed HB 148
Sara Fisher, Legislative Aide
to Representative Gene Therriault
State Capitol, Room 421
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-4797
Position Statement: Delivered Sponsor Statement, HB 148
Jake Warner
4000 Bull Moose Drive
Wasilla, Alaska 99654
376-4151
Position Statement: Opposed HB 148
Terry Bill
P.O. Box 6800
Ketchikan, Alaska
Position Statement: Opposed HB 148
Wendy Redman, Vice President
University Relations, University of Alaska
910 Yukon Drive
Fairbanks, Alaska 99775-5560
474-7582
Position Statement: Supported HB 148
Donna Chantry, President
University of Alaska
Employees General Assembly
11120 Glacier Highway
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Position Statement: Supported HB 148
Representative Jim Nordlund
State Capitol
Court, Room 608
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-4968
Position Statement: Prime Sponsor, HCR 8
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HCR 16
SHORT TITLE: ESTABLISH STATE COAL POLICY
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF HOUSE ECONOMIC TASK FORCE
TITLE: Relating to establishing the coal policy of the
state.
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/15/93 648 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/15/93 648 (H) STATE AFFAIRS
03/20/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 46
SHORT TITLE: STATE-PAID TRAVEL MILEAGE CREDITS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN
TITLE: "An Act relating to frequent traveler credit for
state-paid travel."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/12/93 43 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/12/93 43 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, TRANSPORTATION,
FINANCE
03/20/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HB 148
SHORT TITLE: EXEMPT U OF AK FROM APA PROCEDURES
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Davies
TITLE: "An Act exempting the University of Alaska from the
administrative adjudication provisions of the Administrative
Procedure Act; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/11/93 322 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/11/93 322 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, HES, JUDICIARY
03/20/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HCR 8
SHORT TITLE: COMMITTEE MEETINGS: NOTICE AND ACTIONS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) NORDLUND,Olberg,Navarre,
Ulmer,Sitton,B.Davis,Brown
TITLE: Proposing amendments to the Uniform Rules of the
Alaska State Legislature relating to notice of committee
meetings and action by committees; and providing for an
effective date.
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/19/93 390 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/19/93 390 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY
03/20/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-30, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN AL VEZEY called the House State Affairs Committee
to order at 8:02 a.m., on March 20, 1993. Members present
included Representatives Kott, Sanders, Davis, Olberg and
Ulmer, representing a quorum. Also present were
Representatives Terry Martin, Jeannette James, and Jim
Nordlund.
HCR 16: ESTABLISH STATE COAL POLICY
Number 019
CHAIRMAN VEZEY read the title to HCR 16 and asked if anyone
was present who wished to present a sponsor statement.
Number 028
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES joined the committee at the
table and explained she was presenting the Sponsor Statement
on HCR 16 on behalf of the House Economic Development Task
Force. She stated Alaska's coal industry is being hampered
by misperceptions that our resources are not available for
exploitation. She noted several outside buyers were
concerned specifically with the availability of coal due to
the mental health lands' dispute. She explained the House
Task Force is making an effort to correct the image that
coal is not readily available, and that such a plan had been
endorsed by the Alaska State Chamber of Commerce, the Alaska
Coal Association and that the environmental community.
There were no questions from the committee.
Number 080
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT MOVED for unanimous consent to pass
HCR 16 from committee. There was no objection, and IT SO
MOVED.
HB 46: STATE-PAID TRAVEL MILEAGE CREDITS
CHAIRMAN VEZEY read the title to HB 46 and invited
Representative Terry Martin to present the Sponsor
Statement.
Number 114
REPRESENTATIVE TERRY MARTIN, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 46, stated
the decision facing the committee was a simple one: Whether
the mileage credits given by airlines are property of the
state or state employees. He noted Alaska is unique because
our employees are not able to travel county to county as in
other states, and the amount of air travel done here is far
more substantial. He advised state paid air travel is 7.3%
of the total travel in Alaska, which, if mileage credits
became state property, could account for $2.3 million in
savings.
Number 191
REPRESENTATIVE FRAN ULMER noted Alaska Airlines had opposed
such a plan earlier and asked if Representative Martin had
spoken with the company.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN replied in the negative, but knew the
airline was still unwilling to go with the plan because it
has a monopoly on state travel.
Number 215
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated because of that monopoly, it
should make no difference to Alaska Airlines who got the
credit unless there was a problem in setting up the state
accounts for mileage.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN stated Alaska Airlines may be
benefitting from extra travel by state employees because
they could benefit from getting such mileage. He stated
there is the possibility of cutting down on unneeded travel
if the incentive was taken away, and said setting up
departmental accounts should be no problem.
Number 272
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked how the federal government handled
mileage credits.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN stated the federal accounts were
regional, and that other major companies like BP and Arco
had set up company wide accounts. He stated the University
of Alaska made it a point of honor for employees not to
claim mileage.
Number 296
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated it was apparent to her most
states did not monitor mileage because it is not cost
effective and not worth the trouble.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN restated that Alaska employees travel
far more by air than any other state, and he saw nothing
simpler than one state working with one airline to monitor a
limited number of accounts.
Number 380
BRUCE LUDWIG, BUSINESS MANAGER, ALASKA PUBLIC EMPLOYEES
ASSOCIATION (APEA), opposed HB 46 and stated APEA members
routinely traveled during non-working hours and spent
several nights away from family, and the mileage credits are
the only compensation for the inconvenience. He also stated
lawmakers are getting into collective bargaining when they
approach this as a money source, since the union considers
it a contractually agreed benefit.
Number 451
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked Representative Martin about the Class B
misdemeanor HB 46 mandated for those who violate it. He
expressed concern jail time for employees might counter the
dollar savings HB 46 might provide.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN explained jail time probably would not
be a factor often, and that it might be a fitting punishment
anyway.
Number 476
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the $2.3 million savings still might
be offset by putting people in jail.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN reiterated he did not think that would
be a large factor, and noted it was not fair for the
administration to negotiate deals with the union and then
expect legislators to fund them with no input.
Number 511
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER replied that in past years, the
legislature entered labor negotiations with disastrous
results. She reminded the committee the legislature ended
that practice in 1971, and said returning to it would be a
bad idea.
Number 529
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN stated after 20 years, and with the
current contracts in the condition they are, it might be a
good time to reenter those negotiations.
Number 537
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS, as a point of information,
stated as a print shop owner, he would like it if all state
employees submitted their printing jobs to his company, and
said he might even consider a 7.5% kickback to them, just
like the airline gives.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN stated employees were getting other
perks as well, including hotel benefits, and per diem for
meals.
Number 554
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if Representative Martin had any
dialogue with the administration on getting a special rate
from the airline as opposed to claiming the air miles.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN said he had not, because he did not
think he would get anywhere. He pointed out the majority of
air travel is done by upper level employees who might block
such an idea.
Number 568
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked why the airline might negotiate to
set up mileage accounts for each department.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN explained there was no incentive, and
there is no control on how much employees travel.
Number 584
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT suggested instead of claiming air miles
from employee travel, cutting the travel budget of each
agency by the amount expected to be saved might be the
solution.
Number 608
REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG MOVED passage of HB 46.
Number 610
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked the committee to check the
statutes on the potential penalties for a Class B
misdemeanor before taking a vote.
Number 617
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked Representative Olberg to WITHDRAW his
MOTION to allow a possible amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG did so.
CHAIRMAN VEZEY then put the committee at ease.
Number 630
CHAIRMAN VEZEY called the committee back to order and noted
the penalty for a Class B misdemeanor is zero to 90 days.
Number 641
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked what would happen if the airline
refused to go along with the single account idea.
Number 650
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS replied other airlines would fill the
void.
Number 660
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG suggested leaving penalties up to a
judge.
Number 662
CHAIRMAN VEZEY suggested leaving the penalty up to the
administration.
Number 670
REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS suggested AMENDING HB 46 to DELETE
section 2, paragraph b.
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG OBJECTED.
REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS felt agents responsible for issuing
travel vouchers should be held accountable to just doing
their job and be subject to penalties.
Number 690
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said after looking closer at HB 46, he
interpreted it to read that penalties would be applied to
employees of the airline.
Number 692
REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS said he now understood, and WITHDREW
his MOTION.
TAPE 93-30, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG MOVED passage of HB 46.
Number 012
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER OBJECTED, saying mileage credits are
covered under a collective bargaining agreement.
Number 042
HB 46 FAILED to pass by a 3-3 vote, Representatives Vezey,
Olberg and Sanders voting YES; Representatives Kott, G.
Davis and Ulmer voting NO.
HB 148: EXEMPT U OF AK FROM APA PROCEDURES
Number 053
LOIS FOSTER testified by teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to HB 148, and said university employees had
fought long and hard for grievance procedures. She also
said the University was spending money to rid itself of
procedures to weaken employees, and noted that while the
University is taking personnel cuts, it is increasing the
size of its legal staff.
Number 097
CHAIRMAN VEZEY then called for a sponsor statement on HB
148.
Number 103
SARA FISHER, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE GENE
THERRIAULT, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 148, joined the committee
and read the sponsor's statement. She stated the University
was never intended to be covered by the provisions of the
Alaska Statute creating the Administrative Procedures Act
(APA). She said the APA was not designed for student or
employee grievances, but rather for citizens' grievances
against boards and commissions. She noted the University is
spending a great deal of money defending itself needlessly
against APA filings.
Number 145
JAKE WARNER testified by teleconference from Mat-Su in
opposition to HB 148, saying as a parent of two university
students, he felt exempting the University from the APA
would lessen the ability of students to be heard. He stated
the University would be given more power over the appeals
process, and students would previously have had a much
tougher time gaining access to grievance procedures prior to
the APA's application to the University.
Number 192
TERRY BILL testified by teleconference from Ketchikan and
opposed HB 148. He stated the University could not be
trusted to protect its employees without the APA. He cited
the McGrath v. University of Alaska and Odum v. University
of Alaska cases as proof. He also said the University's
claim that the APA costs too much was irrelevant.
Number 230
BRUCE LUDWIG, BUSINESS MANAGER FOR APEA/AFT testified in
opposition to HB 148. He stated the APA sets a standard of
conduct for administrative employees who review the cases,
and removing that standard could allow abuse. He also said
that without the APA in place, the only redress employees
might have would be a court case, which for most employees
is not practical because of the cost.
Number 267
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER was under the impression there were
dual systems in place: The University's original grievance
procedure, and the APA. She asked why.
MR. LUDWIG stated classified employees are not satisfied
with the grievance system and said many felt they would not
get their "day in court" without the APA.
Number 290
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the APA's procedures were tedious
compared to the internal process.
MR. LUDWIG stated the APA process was fair but not tedious.
Number 314
CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated it seemed the APA gave employees a
right to what amounted to a jury trial in front of a hearing
officer.
MR. LUDWIG stated the APA does give employees the right to
such a hearing, but that it rarely happens. He said
usually, administrators hear the grievance themselves or
hand it off to another personnel officer to hear.
Number 356
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated it seemed that employees'
biggest concerns are who does the grievance hearings, and
how the hearing is done. She asked if there is a compromise
possible for employees and the University to agree upon.
MR. LUDWIG knew of no discussions on such a compromise.
Number 383
WENDY REDMAN, VICE PRESIDENT OF UNIVERSITY RELATIONS FOR THE
UNIVERSITY SYSTEM joined the discussion in support of HB
148. She stated Mr. Ludwig's group, APEA/AFT, was not a
recognized bargaining unit for university employees, and
they were only involved in early discussions with about 20
mechanical employees in the system. She went on to say that
university employees have worked under the old grievance
system for several years, and only after Judge Brian
Shortell ordered the university to use the APA's procedures
in the Odum case were they modified.
MS. REDMAN stated the University had no interest in
dismantling the grievance procedure, but wanted to clarify
the procedures as the Supreme Court later ordered in the
Odum case. She also stated the APA's procedures were costly
to the University, and pointed out employers under the APA
bear the entire cost of holding such hearings. She said the
APA was never intended for employees under the original
intent of the statutes.
Number 515
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked if HB 148 passed, what guarantee
would be given to employees to have their grievances heard.
Number 526
MS. REDMAN stated the University and the employees' assembly
had been working on a grievance procedure for more than two
years, and if that plan is adopted by the regents, the
grievance procedure would likely return as written by the
employees' assembly prior to the APA decision.
Number 543
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER felt there were a number of employees
who did not like the idea of returning to the old
procedures.
Number 553
MS. REDMAN stated the APA's procedures had been in effect
for slightly more than two years, and she felt confident
employees would return to the old procedures.
Number 565
CHAIRMAN VEZEY knew of no other employer who subscribed to
the APA's style procedures, including the use of an outside
hearing officer.
Number 585
DONNA CHANTRY, PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY EMPLOYEES GENERAL
ASSEMBLY joined the committee to testify for HB 148. She
stated university employees are not represented by any
union. She said as president of the assembly, she went
through every grievance procedure with every claimant, and
knew the procedure well. She said most of the time,
problems are easily resolved even if an employee has a
grievance. She stated under the procedures, an employee's
supervisor or the other party is usually called in, and the
problem can usually be solved.
MS. CHANTRY said under this system, employees have had great
success with grievances, and the system was working very
well. If HB 148 is passed, she said the assembly was
prepared to devise and pass a formal hearing option for
employees to pursue in place of the APA procedures. She
stated removing the APA from university procedures is
fiscally wise in the face of budget restraints, and she
urged the committee to pass the bill.
Number 674
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked when the assembly might move on such a
procedure if HB 148 is passed.
Number 676
MS. CHANTRY stated the assembly would move quickly upon HB
148's passage.
Number 692
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER MOVED to AMEND HB 148 to make the
resulting law effective when the assembly and then the
regents adopt the plan.
Number 696
CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if removing the APA from the
University's procedures might have an effect elsewhere
beside labor relations.
TAPE 93-31, SIDE A
Number 000
MS. REDMAN replied, "It might."
Number 012
CHAIRMAN VEZEY expressed concern that Representative Ulmer's
proposed effective date might be too ambiguous.
Number 028
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated it would not be a problem, since
previous legislation tied effective dates to actions outside
the legislature's control, such as appropriations.
Number 46
CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted HB 148 does not apply to situations
like receiving checks, and stated it could eventually
involve labor groups and the National Labor Relations Board.
Number 060
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER did not see the problem, since the
University and the regents wanted it, and so did the
employees.
Number 064
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG felt the standard effective date of 90
days might be acceptable.
Number 075
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated the 90 day limit might create a
window between the abolition of the APA's procedures and the
time when the new procedures are in place.
Number 121
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated the old procedures would be in
place anyway, with the exception of the APA.
Number 132
REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS was in favor of the amendment, and
had no problem accommodating people nervous about the
changeover.
Number 145
MS. FISHER stated Representative Therriault would have no
problem with the change in the effective date.
Number 170
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT MOVED acceptance of the AMENDMENT.
Number 192
The AMENDMENT to HB 148 PASSED by a 4-2 vote.
Number 196
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT MOVED passage of HB 143, as amended.
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG OBJECTED. HB 148, as amended, PASSED
4-2.
Number 199
CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted the Committee Substitute to HB 148
would be drawn up as amended and then moved.
Number 216
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG RESTATED his OBJECTION.
Number 229
CHAIRMAN VEZEY CHANGED his VOTE, which forced a tie. HB
148, as amended, was NOT MOVED from committee.
HCR 8: COMMITTEE MEETINGS: NOTICE AND ACTIONS
Number 240
CHAIRMAN VEZEY read the title to HCR 8 and invited its
sponsor, Representative Jim Nordlund to deliver his
statement.
Number 245
REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND, PRIME SPONSOR OF HCR 8,
explained the intent of the resolution to streamline the
committee process. He said most committees are already
following the practices laid down by HCR 8, but the
procedures need to be formalized. HCR 8 would establish a
Wednesday rule for committee reporting of the following
week's calendar, and then a publication date of Thursday by
the clerk. HCR 8 would also establish a notification
procedure for introducing new bills and the date of the next
hearing on already-heard bills. At the same time, HCR 8
would allow full participation, including voting and signing
of reports by those attending by teleconference.
Number 405
CHAIRMAN VEZEY expressed his concern with section two, which
would allow full participation and voting in the meeting,
and asked if that might also allow someone who might not
attend a full meeting to sign a committee report as if they
had.
Number 424
REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND did not believe so, but said he
would be open to amending HCR 8 to please the committee. He
stated his prime concern was to make the legislature more
accessible to people outside of Juneau. He also pointed out
HCR 8's intent to allow only bills to be introduced by a
majority of a committee.
Number 472
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if Representative Nordlund had
ever been prevented from speaking on a bill introduced by
the majority.
Number 475
REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND said that had never happened.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 480
CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted the time, and told the committee HCR 8
would have to be heard at another time, since other
committees were near their convening time. He adjourned the
meeting at 10:07 a.m.
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